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1 stunned when I was arrested. But maybe stunned is
2 too big a word, but surprised. I certainly was.
3 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So let's -- okay.
4 So that's -- that's -- was a long description of --
5 of what was a very long life and that was very
6 helpful. So I want to go back and talk more
7 specifically now about particular areas, and, but
8 that was a a very helpful kind of foundation
9 for -- for us.
10 The first -- the first thing I want to
11 talk about, you talked about earlier on, about
12 Mr. Epstein's financial success. What -- you know,
13 do you know how he -- when you first meet him, at
14 some point you say, "I got this place for you to
15 rent, you can't afford it." And he laughs at you and
16 says, "Yes. I can."
17 What did you learn about his wealth and
18 how he was and how he accumulated his money?
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can tell you what he
20 told me.
21 TODD BLANCHE: Yes.
22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I -- I know that he
23 was hired from working at a private school whose name
24 eludes me at this point.
25 LEAH SAFFIAN: Dalton.

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1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was
2 working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he
3 met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met
4 someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very
5 good at math. And I believe that he then worked on
6 creating a trading of, oh, my gosh.
7 TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's
8 okay. Go ahead.
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came -- came up
10 with some new type of trading system. Not -- not a
11 system so much, but as a as a as a --as
12 vehicle. A trading vehicle.
13 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping
15 right now.
16 TODD BLANCHE: And this is while -- while
17 he was working at at Bear Stearns?
18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes.
19 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay.
20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well --
21 TODD BLANCHE: And was this before you met
22 him?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
24 TODD BLANCHE: So this is what he told
25 you.

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1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
2 TODD BLANCHE: What you learned?
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. This is what he
4 told me --
5 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- himself.
7 TODD BLANCHE: And so -- and then
8 eventually he starts a financial firm? Do you know
9 that to be true or no? J. Epstein & Company. You
10 ever heard of that?
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's, yeah.
12 Yes. So hang on a minute. So I -- this I did not
13 know, but this I have subsequently learned --
14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- is that he had some
16 problem or some issue at Bear Stearns and there was
17 some, I don't know, disagreement. He wasn't fired,
18 because obviously he was still very friendly with Ace
19 and with Jimmy, at least by the time I met him, but
20 they were working with him and he ran he had cli-
21 money at Bear Stearns, and --
22 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- his money, his
24 client's money. We'll -- I'll come to that.
25 But he started -- he told me himself that

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1 he started a business where he looked for stolen
2 money. So if somebody -- let's see. I'm trying to
3 think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't
4 think of anything, I've been with -- not great --
5 I'll -- I'll give it to you.
6 So let's say you have El Chapo, oh God, I
7 don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've
8 got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or
9 still -- he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he
10 steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it
11 to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the
12 Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just
13 --
14 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah -- yeah. I
15 understand.
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- just coming up with
17 something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to
18 Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that,
19 the car- the other cartel stole from me?" And
20 Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will
21 take a portion of the money that was stolen at a fee
22 and give back the remainder. That would be on a
23 percentage basis.
24 TODD BLANCHE: No. But like what you just
25 described, which I appreciate what you said, a

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