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DAVID MARKUS: Or the clients.
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TODD BLANCHE:
or the clients
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themselves?
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GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Never.
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TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So so let's --
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again, I want to stay -- and -- and coming back now
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to what you were talking about a moment ago with
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true.
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Mr. Epstein's kind of progression or or or
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getting worse. So just staying within the '90s.
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What role -- what did -- what role did you
have or what did you observe -- which are two
different issues, but both important -- with respect
to recruiting masseuses to come to either, I guess,
Palm Beach or to travel, or eventually New Mexico.
What role did you have in that?
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GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked me to find
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masseuses for him.
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TODD BLANCHE: Say it again.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He asked me if I could 19
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find him masseuses.
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TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Like, as part of --
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like you said, you were his general manager. As part
of all your -- your duties, that was one of them?
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GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I did do that. So
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the first person I believe that I introduced him to
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as a masseuse was somebody called DOJ REDACTION. She
was, I don't know, mid, late 20s. Professional
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masseuse.
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never asked for a certificate.
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TODD BLANCHE: And was this something that
happened early on in your relationship or -- and
again, I know we're talking about the '90s, but are
we talking about early '90s or is this later on?
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never thought anybody was under 18?
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GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So in terms of
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it's medicinal for me.
massage, I am a -- I have a lot of injuries. I do a
lot of dangerous sports and have had multiple serious
accidents, and walk without any lameness, because of
physical therapy and massage. I've -- that to me is
a very
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So Epstein, whatever his massage
situation, whatever -- he loved massage. And if I
met somebody who I thought was a good masseuse or
masseur, I introduced them.
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And he -- because I got them, and he asked
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me if I did, and I said yes. And that's -- I'm
pretty sure that would've -- well, I don't remember.
'93, '92, from the beginning.
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TODD BLANCHE: So so go ahead. So then
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what happens over the next, you know, like there's
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about how the recruiting was a very aggressive effort
that you were a part of, that he was a part of, and
others, to try to find more and more masseuses.
What -- is that -- is that true, and what
role did you have in that?
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was partially
TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it is true that I
found masseuses and he became more insistent. He
he -- he liked new all the time. He got bored. So
he would be bored with a masseuse and he would say,
find me a new masseuse.
I am the entire opposite. If I find
someone that I like, I stay with them. I'm like, I
don't want new. He would drive for new. So that is
true.
And in my effort to find them, I would go
to massage spas, like legitimate spas. Not -- we're
not talking, you know, funky ones that people have.
So -- and I -- if I got a massage from
somebody in a spa, that was -- I liked -- I liked, I
asked them if they would do home visits. If they
said yes, I would ask them to come to the house and
he would see if he liked them or not. But these were
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people who worked in spas. I never, ever checked
their age and I never checked their credentials. I
never
drive.
TODD BLANCHE: What
DAVID MARKUS: But just to be clear, you
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never crossed -- I
no. That was never my that was never a
TODD BLANCHE: What -- what did you know
at the time about him, Mr. Epstein, requiring
masseuses to be naked or requiring masseuses to
either perform sexual favors for Mr. Epstein or to be
there if Mr. Epstein masturbated or things like that.
And again, I'm asking you about a 15-year
period or whatever, 10-year period. So I appreciate,
it's a very broad question. So answer it in a way
that, you know, addresses what you've been charged
with doing, but also what's been said about you.
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I don't --
the '90s, I don't think that I ever thought -- that
never would cross my mind. I'm not sure that I
thought about that in those contexts at all, until
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been -- there's a ton of writing and a ton of, I
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guess, testimony as well, but also public reporting,
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his arrest and those papers came out. But I believe
the -- the subject of the -- the question that you're
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