DOJ-OGR-00022686.tif

Page 118
1 that was the person he had the most massages, yoga,
2 and that -- with at that time in the '90s period.
3 The second thing is that -- is he told me
4 he didn't -- he had difficulty having an erection,
5 and I believed him.
6 TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that,
7 you mean he regularly told you that? Like he --
8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When I first --
9 because when I didn't have sex with him after the
10 first time, and it took so I asked him, was it me?
11 And he told me it was him.
12 And I had never, up until this moment in
13 my life, I -- as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright.
14 I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over
15 the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met
16 or understood that somebody could be so -- would lie
17 to me about -- I could -- it never occurred to me.
18 I didn't have a frame of context within my
19 life experience where somebody would be so
20 manipulative and devious with me. I just -- and
21 plus, I just didn't have -- I just -- and I was happy
22 not to have sex, because I have a condition that
23 doesn't lend itself to that.
24 TODD BLANCHE: Does -- when you learned --
25 so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08,
Page 119
1 '09 time period and he's arrested and charged and
2 there's all kinds of press around his purported
3 contact, at that point -- at that point, did you
4 accept that that was true? Meaning, did it make
5 sense at that point?
6 When you were reading about women who
7 claimed that they had been abused, even underage
8 and at that point, did you think to yourself,
9 well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about
10 it or no?
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I
12 didn't -- that's -- I only read what was in the
13 newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm
14 embarrassed to say it, I didn't -- I didn't believe
15 it.
16 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Right. I mean, you
17 didn't believe that the accusations were true at the
18 time.
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
20 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. So let's --
21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And sorry, I need to
22 say, even if they were true, I believe that he was
23 duped and he didn't know that they were -- whatever
24 that was in the papers at that time, whether they
25 said that they were 17 or, I didn't -- it didn't
Page 120
1 register, because --
2 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- along with all of
4 those -- well, not in 2006, but later when the more
5 salacious and other allegations came out, I knew were
6 utterly false, which then just reinforced my belief
7 that the rest was not true.
8 TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question
9 about the age of the masseuses over the years. It --
10 I think in my mind, there's a difference between you
11 knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under the
12 age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you
13 knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abused
14 the underage person or made her strip or something
15 like that, meaning -- and I want to understand
16 whether you believe that nobody that came to give
17 massages, none of the women were under 18 or that you
18 didn't focus on their age, but you -- you were more
19 focused on whether any underage woman was abused by
20 him.
21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's better to
22 answer this question with corroborating evidence and
23 then go back and explain, so that I frame --
24 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah.
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- your understanding
Page 121
1 of what I'm saying. Of the -- my understanding is
2 that in 2000 and, let's say 2008, they had
3 interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that
4 number.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to
7 understand, not a single one of those 44 women
8 mentioned me in a single report. And it's not
9 because -- go back.
10 They didn't mention me in their report
11 because they never met me, they never saw me, and
12 they never interacted with me. So to go back to your
13 question, it's not that I thought one way or another,
14 it's that I didn't see them.
15 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. I see. Okay.
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that --
17 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, no, that's helpful.
18 So --
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not -- and but
20 when I say not one, not single one of those reports
21 talked about me. And I just want to clarify exactly,
22 because I'm obviously aware that one of those girls
23 is -- was one of the witnesses in my trial,
24 specifically DOJ REDACTION
25 To use her own testimony so that you don't
MAGNA
LEGAL SERVICES
31 (Pages 118 to 121)
DOJ-OGR-00022686