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Page 82
1 told that video exists, like what we're talking
2 about, or photos were taken that -- that were
3 compromising?
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So in the -- in both
5 of those, I never received no pictures or anything
6 from the civil case.
7 TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh.
8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But in the criminal
9 case, I received videos of Epstein talking to women
10 and stuff like that. I did get those. I also saw
11 binders, photographs of women and (indiscernible). I
12 never saw any, well, I don't know -- I don't know how
13 old some of these women were. There were definitely
14 some of the victims from Palm Beach, the photographs
15 of them in -- in -- without clothing.
16 TODD BLANCHE: And in that -- in those
17 photographs, were -- the victims that were
18 photographed, were there any of the people you've
19 talked about? Like, were there men with the victims
20 or were they just photographs of the victims?
21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There was no men with
22 these pictures. There was no client of his with
23 those pictures. They would be standalone, for want
24 of a better word, like modeling shots. If you
25 were if you -- if you were, I don't know.
Page 83
1 DAVID MARKUS: Pictures that Epstein had
2 with the girls, but not Epstein with the clients and
3 the girls.
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Correct.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- I understand you
6 said you got those in the discovery. Did you know
7 those -- those pictures -- pictures like that
8 existed?
9 So right now I'm talking about photographs
10 of victims or photographs of women that Mr. Epstein
11 had on his computer or wherever he had them. Did you
12 know that those photos existed before you got them in
13 discovery?
14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some of them,
15 absolutely, because they were in his house. Some of
16 these pictures were on his, you know, credenza or
17 whatever.
18 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Some pictures I've
20 simply never seen before. I mean, there was -- I --
21 I had never seen some of them. Some of them I had,
22 some of them I hadn't, I mean.
23 TODD BLANCHE: Did you SO so you're
24 right, and I -- I accept that having video or
25 photographs of somebody famous or powerful in a
Page 84
1 compromising position, would be good blackmail.
2 But -- so separate -- putting aside what
3 you've said about the fact that you don't know of any
4 existence of those, did you observe, over the years,
5 the folks we're talking about, or others which we can
6 talk about, getting massages from young women?
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I -- I just -- I
8 think it's really helpful to understand a few things
9 that has been missed in this whole mishigas.
10 DAVID MARKUS: That's a technical term.
11 TODD BLANCHE: I'll look it up later.
12 Go ahead.
13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I thought about this
14 obviously a lot and I've given it --
15 TODD BLANCHE: Yep.
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: some so this is
17 the benefit of some benefit of what I saw and some
18 benefit of what I now think, so just for clarity's
19 sake.
20 I think -- I just want to say for the
21 record, that I do believe that Epstein did a lot of,
22 not all, but some of what he's accused of. And I'm
23 not here to defend him in any respect whatsoever. I
24 don't want to, and I don't think he requires, nor
25 deserves any type of protection or from me in any
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1 way, to sugarcoat what he did or didn't do. So
2 there's that.
3 However, the man I met and the man he
4 became, I believe that there is a progression, and I
5 don't think that the man I met is the man that he
6 became. I believe he became that man over a period
7 of time.
8 Now we can discuss anything you want and
9 I'll tell you everything I know, but I think somebody
10 who has an interest, however you define that, in
11 underage people is obviously someone who is unwell.
12 But I don't think that you wake up one day and you
13 start doing what he's accused of. I think this is
14 something that you develop or you progress to. I --
15 I think, because --
16 DAVID MARKUS: Ghislaine, before -- before
17 you get into all that, let's answer the top line
18 question and then get into it.
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The top line
20 question is?
21 DAVID MARKUS: Did you ever see any of
22 these people with underage women?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No no. Iso the
24 reason I'm saying that is not is not to avoid that
25 question, but it's because by the time, when you were
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