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Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 646-10 Filed 02/22/22 Page 32 of 67
A-5641

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v
PAUL M. DAUGERDAS, ET AL.,

February 15, 2012

[Page 125]
C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 125

1 A. Sir, tab 3?
2 Q. Tab 3, yes.
3 A. All right.
4 MR. GAIR: Your Honor, at this time I would move the
5 admission of PMD3.
6 THE COURT: Any objection?
7 MR. OKULA: No, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: PMD 3 is received in evidence.
9 (Exhibit PMD 3 received in evidence)
10 Q. If you would look at page 10 of the transcript, it's got
11 page 5 at the bottom, but then on the right side there are page
12 numbers 9, 10 and 11. Tell me when you've got that.
13 A. Okay. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay, and if you look at beginning at line 8, the Court
15 says, "Do you want to complete this affidavit now so that I can
16 make a determination as to whether or not you can afford
17 counsel?"
18 And you said, "I can't afford counsel, that's correct,
19 sir."
20 Do you remember that happening?
21 A. If it's here then it happened, sir.
22 Q. And I'm asking you now do you remember it?
23 A. Yeah, probably.
24 Q. Okay. And you understood that you needed to qualify in
25 order to have an attorney appointed for you, correct?

[Page 127]
C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 127

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Why did you say "this is garbage"?
3 A. I really don't know why.
4 Q. So that's another instance where you did something but you
5 don't know why you did it, correct?
6 A. I'm not going to adopt your characterization of anything,
7 sir.
8 Q. Is that an instance in which you said something but you
9 don't know why you said it?
10 A. I give you my same answer, sir.
11 Q. I can do this all day, Ms. Conrad. Did you in fact make a
12 statement to the Court, "this is garbage," without knowing why
13 you were saying it?
14 A. I really don't know what your question means.
15 Q. Why did you say to the Court "this is garbage"?
16 A. I don't know, sir.
17 Q. So this would be an instance where you did something in a
18 matter you knew was important and you don't know why you did
19 it, correct?
20 A. No. I'm not going to adopt your mischaracterization, sir.
21 Q. What have I mischaracterized?
22 A. That you're implying that I do things that I don't know
23 what I'm doing.
24 Q. Didn't you just tell us that you didn't know why you were
25 doing what you just did?

[Page 126]
C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 126

1 A. I didn't know specifically, specifically what the
2 qualifications are or were.
3 Q. But you knew it was a financial qualification, correct?
4 A. Probably.
5 Q. Okay. And you understood that you would have to fill out a
6 financial affidavit, did you not?
7 A. I don't know how to answer that. Maybe eventually.
8 Q. Well, when the Court said do you want to complete this
9 affidavit now so that I can make a determination as to whether
10 or not you can afford counsel, did you understand at that point
11 that you had to complete a financial affidavit?
12 A. I don't know, sir.
13 Q. All right. Look back on page 8. It's on the facing page
14 of this exhibit, line 6, Judge Pauley says if you would like a
15 lawyer but do not have the funds to retain one, you may make an
16 application to this Court to have an attorney appointed
17 provided that you make such application and submit a completed
18 financial affidavit that demonstrates your inability to retain
19 counsel by December 23rd 2011, and then a then a form was tendered to
20 you. Do you remember that happening?
21 A. Oh, yes, sir.
22 Q. And do you remember what you said to Judge Pauley when you
23 got the form?
24 A. Oh, yes. "This is garbage."
25 Q. You said, "this is garbage"?

[Page 128]
C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 128

1 A. It was probably a kneejerk reaction, sir.
2 Q. So you do know why you did it, it was a kneejerk reaction?
3 A. If you want to characterize it that way.
4 Q. Was it irrational for you to tell Judge Pauley --
5 A. I'm not a psychologist.
6 Q. Because you're not a psychologist you can't penetrate
7 mental states of other people and yourself, correct?
8 A. I don't know how to answer that.
9 Q. Are you able to form a conclusion whether or not somebody
10 is acting rational or irrationality?
11 A. Yes, and I was a very unbiased juror.
12 Q. Ms. Conrad, would you agree with me that your conduct in
13 telling Judge Pauley that the affidavit was garbage was
14 irrational?
15 A. No. And it has nothing to do with the jury verdict that
16 was rendered against your client.
17 Q. Are you under the impression that you are the determinant
18 in this proceeding of what is relevant and irrelevant
19 information?
20 A. I'm not the judge, sir.
21 Q. But yet you just told me that my question was in essence
22 irrelevant, correct?
23 A. I'm not going to mischaracterize your statements.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Gair, is this an appropriate place for
25 a luncheon recess?

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