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Case 2:09-cr-00581-DAB Document 646-1 Filed 02/24/22 Page 12 of 767
A-5639

February 15, 2012
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v
PAUL M. DAUGERDAS, ET AL.,

C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 117
1 was crazy talk?
2 MR. OKULA: Objection.
3 A. No, I'm not a psychologist.
4 THE COURT: Sustained.
5 Q. Can you explain the connection, if any, between what you
6 said about Judge Pauley receiving another Clinton appointment
7 and the matters that were going to be discussed?
8 A. No.
9 Q. And did you have any special insight when you said "it's
10 not going to happen" that Judge Pauley would not receive
11 another appointment?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Now, when you came to the hearing on December 20th, did you
14 understand that you had been compelled to come to that hearing
15 by having an order served on you at your home?
16 A. Yes, I had a subpoena served upon me.
17 Q. By two deputy U.S. marshals, correct?
18 A. I believe so, yes.
19 Q. And you understood that you had to obey that order,
20 correct?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. And you understood that you couldn't leave, correct, till
23 Judge Pauley told you you could leave?
24 A. I don't really know what that means.
25 Q. Well, do you remember telling the deputy clerk at that time

C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 118
1 that your time was being wasted and you were going to walk out
2 of the courtroom?
3 A. No, I don't.
4 Q. Did you do that?
5 A. If I told you I don't remember, how can you ask me the next
6 question?
7 Q. Did Judge Pauley explain to you at that hearing you're
8 ordered to appear as a witness at a hearing on February 15th
9 concerning your role as a juror in United States v. Daugerdas?
10 A. I don't specifically recall him.
11 Q. Do you recall something like that?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And do you recall that your response, or do you recall that
14 later in that hearing he told you again you're going to have to
15 testify at a hearing. Do you recall that?
16 A. Not specifically, no, sir.
17 Q. Do you recall that your initial response to being told that
18 you had to appear at a hearing is to say, "No, I don't. No,
19 no, no"?
20 A. If you're reading from the transcript, then that's what I
21 said, sir.
22 Q. And do you recall that when the Judge gave you instructions
23 about retaining a lawyer you said, and I quote, "For what? I'm
24 no, I'm not. I'm not going to court for anything. I'm not
25 testifying for anything, sir." Do you remember saying that?

C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 119
1 A. I can't dispute if you're reading from the transcript, sir.
2 So --
3 Q. I'm asking if you remember saying it.
4 A. If you're reading from the transcript then I said it. It
5 doesn't matter, I guess, if I remember it or not. But I recall
6 that.
7 Q. You do recall?
8 A. Vaguely.
9 Q. Now, would you agree with me in your career as a lawyer
10 that it is an uncommon response for a person ordered by a judge
11 to appear in court to testify to say no, I'm not going to do
12 that?
13 MR. OKULA: Objection, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Overruled.
15 A. Could you please repeat the question?
16 Q. Based on your experience as a lawyer, would you agree with
17 me that your conduct in responding to the judge's instructions
18 by saying you were not going to appear was unusual?
19 A. I'm not a psychologist. I don't know. I don't know how to
20 answer you, sir.
21 Q. Well, you are a lawyer, correct?
22 A. No. I was.
23 Q. Have you been disbarred?
24 A. No.
25 Q. So you're a suspended lawyer?

C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 120
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. You had legal training?
3 A. Yes. I went to law school.
4 Q. How many times have you ever heard a person ordered by a
5 judge to appear and testify say "I'm not going to"?
6 A. I have no idea.
7 Q. It might happen all the time?
8 A. I don't know how to answer your question, sir.
9 Q. Would you agree that that is not -- to tell a federal
10 judge, and I quote, "I'm not showing up" when you've been
11 ordered to show up is conduct that is not rational?
12 A. I am not a psychologist. I am not part of the disciplinary
13 committee, so I don't know how to answer your question, sir.
14 Q. Do you know what the word "rational" means?
15 A. I'm not a psychologist. There are variations that are
16 shades of gray.
17 Q. Have you ever been treated for a mental illness?
18 A. I'm not going to answer this.
19 THE COURT: You are directed to answer it.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Ma'am, has anybody ever told you that you suffer from
22 bipolar disorder?
23 A. Not at all.
24 Q. What medications do you take?
25 A. Water.

Page 117 - Page 120 (30) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS
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